<SEC-DOCUMENT>0001104659-25-004103.txt : 20250116
<SEC-HEADER>0001104659-25-004103.hdr.sgml : 20250116
<ACCEPTANCE-DATETIME>20250116160905
ACCESSION NUMBER:		0001104659-25-004103
CONFORMED SUBMISSION TYPE:	FWP
PUBLIC DOCUMENT COUNT:		1
FILED AS OF DATE:		20250116
DATE AS OF CHANGE:		20250116

SUBJECT COMPANY:	

	COMPANY DATA:	
		COMPANY CONFORMED NAME:			Eagle Point Credit Co Inc.
		CENTRAL INDEX KEY:			0001604174
		ORGANIZATION NAME:           	
		IRS NUMBER:				465215217
		STATE OF INCORPORATION:			DE
		FISCAL YEAR END:			1231

	FILING VALUES:
		FORM TYPE:		FWP
		SEC ACT:		1934 Act
		SEC FILE NUMBER:	333-269139
		FILM NUMBER:		25535805

	BUSINESS ADDRESS:	
		STREET 1:		600 STEAMBOAT RD, SUITE 202
		CITY:			GREENWICH
		STATE:			CT
		ZIP:			06830
		BUSINESS PHONE:		203.862.3150

	MAIL ADDRESS:	
		STREET 1:		600 STEAMBOAT RD, SUITE 202
		CITY:			GREENWICH
		STATE:			CT
		ZIP:			06830

	FORMER COMPANY:	
		FORMER CONFORMED NAME:	Eagle Point Credit Co LLC
		DATE OF NAME CHANGE:	20140331

FILED BY:		

	COMPANY DATA:	
		COMPANY CONFORMED NAME:			Eagle Point Credit Co Inc.
		CENTRAL INDEX KEY:			0001604174
		ORGANIZATION NAME:           	
		IRS NUMBER:				465215217
		STATE OF INCORPORATION:			DE
		FISCAL YEAR END:			1231

	FILING VALUES:
		FORM TYPE:		FWP

	BUSINESS ADDRESS:	
		STREET 1:		600 STEAMBOAT RD, SUITE 202
		CITY:			GREENWICH
		STATE:			CT
		ZIP:			06830
		BUSINESS PHONE:		203.862.3150

	MAIL ADDRESS:	
		STREET 1:		600 STEAMBOAT RD, SUITE 202
		CITY:			GREENWICH
		STATE:			CT
		ZIP:			06830

	FORMER COMPANY:	
		FORMER CONFORMED NAME:	Eagle Point Credit Co LLC
		DATE OF NAME CHANGE:	20140331
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<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0; text-align: right">File Nos. 811-22974 and 333-269139<BR>
Filed Pursuant to Rule&nbsp;433</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">Transcript</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>Rena
Sherbill:</B></FONT>&nbsp;Tom Majewski from Eagle Point (NYSE:ECC). It's really great to have you on Seeking Alpha. Back on Seeking Alpha,&nbsp;I
should say, and on the podcast.&nbsp;Welcome back&nbsp;to Seeking Alpha, and welcome to Investing Experts. It's great to have you.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>Thomas
Majewski:</B></FONT>&nbsp;Great Rena. Thanks so much for having me. I'm glad to be back.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>RS</B></FONT>:
It's great to have you and we've been talking in the past couple of months about various ways to boost your income via stocks, via&nbsp;dividend&nbsp;paying
stocks, via BDCs. Care to share with investors where Eagle Point sits in the income world? If you could kind of make the definitions very
clear for our investing community?</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>TM</B></FONT>:
Sure. Eagle Point can mean a lot of different things I guess. It's commonly used to describe two funds that we are the external advisor
of. They have similar flavors, but maybe some slightly different seasoning to them.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">One is Eagle Point Credit Company, which trades under the ticker (ECC),
and the other one is Eagle Point Income Company, which trades under the ticker (NYSE:EIC). Both of them involve credit exposure and both
of them seek to generate income, but they're slightly different flavors.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">ECC is one of the largest funds that owns CLO equity, in the world
at this point. There's one or two others of similar size that are publicly traded. And CLO equity in my opinion, is perhaps still one
of the more misunderstood asset classes. It's something that generates typically lots and lots of cash flow.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">It's an asset class that has, over multiple credit cycles, kind of
proven its merit and its worth. The structures work, the investments worked, and they generate lots of cash flow for investors. And it
allows the company to pay a very nice strong monthly distribution, for investors seeking high&nbsp;cash flow&nbsp;from their investments.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">It is equity. So there is in theory should be greater risk, because
it's a residual interest in these CLOs or collateralized loan obligations. And I'm sure in a minute or two, we'll spend a couple of minutes
describing just what a CLO is for - to the extent readers or listeners would like a refresh.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">We also offer Eagle Point Income Company or EIC, which focuses on the
principally the BB tranche of CLO transactions.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"></P>


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<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">The same things that might be an ECC, but these securities are further
up in the capital structure of a CLO should in general, you'd expect to have less risk of loss than the equity simply, because it's rated
debt and has capital beneath it.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">BBs CLOs, specifically the vast majority of EIC's portfolio, is something
that's been very keenly followed by investors over the last few years. And the coupons on the underlying BB rated bonds, are - typically
always floating rate, so they reset every three months.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">And for any listener who bought fixed rate bonds in 2021 or 2022, while
many of those bonds are still paying their interest, they're probably getting interest rates that are 2% or 3%. Obviously base rates are
much higher than that. And the CLO securities owned by EIC, the BB rated bonds, have really benefited from a floating rate environment,
where the interest rates on those bonds go up as rates go up.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">So it's been two different flavors. One pays the dividend versus the
share price on ECC, is higher than the distribution. I should apologize,&nbsp;I should have said the distribution versus the share price
on ECC is higher than the distribution versus the share price on EIC, reflecting perhaps that it's equity versus debt as the principal
asset.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">Both are very interesting though, and both fit,&nbsp;I think, very
nicely in portfolios that investors might hold who are seeking to have monthly distributions of cash coming into their accounts.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>RS</B></FONT>:
The nuance of what constitutes a CLO and maybe in the context of CEFs, what are the differences there and what should income investors
kind of be most aware of?</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>TM</B></FONT>:
Sure, let's focus maybe a couple minutes on the CLO definition first. CLO stands for collateralized loan obligation. These loans are corporate
loans. They're small pieces of big loans, to typically big American companies.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">So representative borrowers over the years would include T Mobile (TMUS),
although that loan's paid off. Hilton Hotels (HLT), Samsonite Luggage (OTCPK:SMSOF), Burger King (QSR). Big companies you do business
with every single day in the United States, maybe not Burger King every day. But big companies you do business with quite often, and are
what makes them interesting.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">These loans are floating rate, so they also float every three months.
And they're senior and secured. So unlike investment grade or junk bonds, which are typically unsecured, the loans that underlie CLOs
are nearly all first lien, senior secured, where they have a pledge of all of a company's assets.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">And what that means is when companies get in trouble, and invariably
even in the best markets, a few companies get into some financial trouble.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"></P>


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<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">Defaults are quite low right now, but they're greater than zero. Being
senior and secured typically helps the recovery rate when a loan goes bad. And that you've got collateral, and the people below you don't.
So that's something that we really like about the loan asset class. And when we look over the last 33 years, the loan asset class has
delivered positive returns in 30 out of the last 33 years.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">When you think back across really any sort of investment program, maybe
other than short-term treasuries it's hard to find something that's generated over 90%,&nbsp;I guess roughly 90% positive total returns
over three plus decades. And that's the underlying asset that generates the cash in our CLOs that lets us pay the distributions to ECC
and EIC shareholders every single month.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">Now that L, the loans in CLO is also the same L as an LBO in that many
of these loans are companies backed by private equity firms that are often growing. They're important parts of the American economy and
are used to facilitate growth, build new plants, open factories, things like that expand distribution.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">So that the loan market, which is probably about $1.4 trillion outstanding
today in the United States, these are syndicated corporate loans, remains a very, very important part of the economy in the United States.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">And then the CLO market is a very important part of the loan market
representing about two-thirds of the size of the loan market, get owned, are owned in these CLOs. But these are the kind of companies
in many cases that are owned by KKR or Carlyle and big private equity firms like that, that people know of and maybe - even own the stocks
of today.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">To talk about a little further into some of our portfolios, and we'll
expand upon this in a little bit, but we also have some,&nbsp;I'll say some CLO type replacements or alternatives that might be even in
some cases more attractive.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">We'll talk about some of those in a little bit in ECC, and EIC's portfolio
in some cases, which we think can add to shareholder returns over time. You also asked me to comment on, kind of the difference between
different types of funds, and closed end funds. And I might even mention ETFs in the equation, as well at this point.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">Some of the things that are another common way for investors to get
exposure to credit is to buy the stock in BDCs, business development companies. These are also 40 Act Funds, but make a special election
and then their principal job is lending money to small and mid-sized American companies.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">So not necessarily the giants like Hilton Hotels and things like that,
but smaller companies, some you've heard of, maybe some you haven't. But that are also senior secured, typically have a little bit of
a higher interest rate on them, but perhaps can be a little bit greater risk of loss simply, because it's a typically a smaller borrower.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"></P>


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<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">The distribution yields on BDCs obviously vary, but some of them can
be 8%, 9% may sometimes get a little higher than that. So there's definitely some opportunity for attractive current income in the BDC
space as well.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">There are also some ETFs or what, these are open end exchange traded
funds. Some that invest in the senior parts of CLO transactions. Those typically have the lowest risk of loss, because they're the highest
in the CLO stack. And there's about $20 billion of those outstanding, give or take right now.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">Some of the differences, unlike ECC or the typical BDC, if a shareholder
wants to buy more, they simply go to the market and buy, and they pay the price the seller is willing to sell. And if a shareholder wants
to exit, you go push the sell button and you get what the next investor is willing to pay.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">But you don't impact the portfolio. So if you sell your stock in BDC
today to buy some ECC shares, which I certainly would think is a great idea, you are not actually impacting either portfolio directly.
The person who runs the BDC doesn't have to sell anything, and I don't buy anything as a result, simply you're just buying the shares
from another investor.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">There are a handful of ETFs focused on the senior part of the CLO structure,
typically with much lower returns, kind of 5% or 6% returns. Maybe more as a quasi-money market alternative that invest in the top of
the capital structure. But they're the difference.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">If you want to sell and you sell enough, the fund manager actually
has to sell securities to meet your sale. And similarly, if you buy, if someone buys enough, the fund manager gets new money in and has
to go deploy that money quickly. Otherwise that money is just sitting in cash, and not earning the distribution rate that the ETF would
otherwise pay.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>RS</B></FONT>:
I'm glad you brought in ETFs into the conversation, deservedly so. There's such a preponderance of ETFs, as you mentioned. It's such a
big part of the market right now.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">What are your thoughts moving forward? How do you navigate within that
new paradigm, within that new reality of so many ETFs, how do you think about that moving forward as a CLO?</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>TM</B></FONT>:
In the CLO market today, ETFs own what I would approximate to be about 2% of the total amount of CLOs outstanding, principally concentrated
at the AAA part of the capital structure.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"></P>


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<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">So if we're down at the equity and BB part, we're down at the bottom.
We get the most return in a typical situation, but have perhaps the greatest, greater risk of loss. These folks sit up at the top of the
capital structure have,&nbsp;I don't believe there's ever been a CLO AAA that failed to repay principal, or even fail to pay timely interest,
so a different risk profile.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">Certainly the price of the securities can move up and down. What we've
seen so far in general are lots and lots of inflows into the ETF world for CLOs. I think research I read said over $10 billion just in
2024 alone.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">So that's good actually for ECC in one way, in that that's creating
a lot of new demand for CLO AAAs. And as we're the equity, we like the spread on AAAs to be as low as possible, because therefore we get
more equity distributions to us, which we like.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">Now, one day that will change. One day these ETFs will have outflows
and investors will say, for whatever reason, decide to take their money out of the CLO, ETF AAA ETFs and those ETFs will have no choice,
but to sell. Not because the portfolio manager is making the decision, but because the shareholder is making the decision for them.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">When that happens, spreads will widen on CLO AAAs and that's less good
for everyone involved, frankly. But that's kind of a natural evolution. When we bring daily liquidity products into a market, it's great
when the inflows are there, but it's less great for the market when they turn to outflows.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>RS</B></FONT>:
In terms of looking towards this year, how do you contextualize the dividend [distribution] this year, and then going forward? For those
interested in the safety and the consistency, what they can look forward to, how would you articulate that for investors?</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>TM</B></FONT>:
Sure. Obviously, we are not experts at repeatedly predicting the future accurately. We're trying, but if you look at our history with
the distributions of ECC and EIC, we've tried to be historically very consistent and try and keep a very steady hand across both of those
vehicles.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">The distributions over time have moved down,&nbsp;I guess, once and
up other times and there have been specials from time-to-time. But we try and take a very long-term approach to managing the company,
and we don't - historically have not moved it around month-to-month or quarter-to-quarter, depending on little vagaries in the market.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">The most important thing I can share with listeners, is in substantially
every quarter since ECC ramped up, and was fully invested in operating in normal conditions, perhaps with one or two exceptions.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">The interest distributions received by ECC from its underlying investments,
have been greater than the distributions paid to ECC shareholders, and the expenses that ECC bears to operate. So what's, when you're
looking at a company, there's kind of three, when you're looking at any investment, there's kind of three perspectives.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"></P>


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<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">There's the GAAP or book yield, kind of GAAP analysis. What's your
accounting income? The taxman has a view and the tax department has their own calculations, as to what taxable income is for a CLO, which
is not, is typically not the same as GAAP income in any given year.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">And interestingly, it's also not the same as cash income in any given
year. If I could pick between them,&nbsp;I would want the most cash income, the least tax income and GAAP, kind of whatever happens, happens.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">As an individual investor, obviously we like GAAP income, but I don't
spend a lot of time focused on it. So when someone's looking at ECC or EIC, one of the things I think they can take comfort in, is the
vast majority of the time the interest collections into the company have met or exceeded the distributions paid to shareholders, and the
expenses of the company.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">Obviously, who knows what the future holds. But when we look over the
last decade plus that ECC has been public, it paints a pretty consistent picture, in my opinion.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>RS</B></FONT>:
And what else would you say for investors curious about your cash flow? How would you either encourage them, or what things would you
highlight in terms of referencing what kind of cash flow you have coming in, and what you're doing with it?</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>TM</B></FONT>:
Sure. The number one thing that we really do highlight, is that the interest coming off our investments are the - is the principal driver
of what we pay distributions with.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">So once in a while there's principal income, or a return of capital
on some underlying investments, we're focused on making sure we have as much interest income coming into the system every quarter to cover
all of our expenses, and when we look at distributions obviously, when we look at our portfolio over time,&nbsp;I think we've done a good
job at selecting investments that generate above average current income, and generate consistent cash coming into the Eagle Point system,
that's the number one thing.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">Lots of different ways to make money in business, the one that's the
most unambiguous is having lots of money get deposited into your bank every single quarter. And when we're investing for ECC and EIC that's
a big thing that we look at. It's not the only thing, but it's certainly a very, very important thing. And there's no better measure of
business success than money in the bank.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>RS</B></FONT>:
That's very true. Anything that you would bring into the conversation in terms of the recent&nbsp;baby bond&nbsp;offering, (NYSE:ECCU)
that you guys have, any kind of broader context if you bring that into the conversation?</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"></P>


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<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>TM</B></FONT>:
Sure. It's great in a number of regards. I think great for the company. It's attractive long-term stable financing. We're taking that
money, which is at a fair, but attractive cost of debt, and investing it in investments that earn significant - have the potential to
earn significantly more than the cost of the bonds that we issued. So that makes all the sense in the world.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">Now there are, there's statutory limits around how much debt and preferred
stock companies, like ECC can have. The investment company Act of 1940, which I'll share some other stats about in a minute, is very prescriptive
as to the amount of leverage companies like ECC and EIC can use. And we're required to have a 300% asset coverage ratio over of our debt
versus our assets.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">And what that means is for every dollar of debt we issue like ECCU,
we need to have at least $3 of assets to support it. So and then for preferred stock, as we need $2 of assets to support it, or a 200
asset coverage ratio. And what we've done when we've run the company - as we've run the company, and we quoted a different way, we actually
say debt to equity ratio, kind of a little more capital markets oriented.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">We've said for ECC for just shy of a decade now that we'll target running
the company at 25% to 35% leverage. And so what that does is gives us and that includes both debt and preferred stock gives us lots of
cushion over the statutory limits in terms of the amount of - we don't use anywhere near the maximum amount of debt that we're able to
borrow under the law.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">During COVID and the market volatility in March&nbsp;and April&nbsp;of
2020 I'm pleased to share, and - longtime shareholders will know this neither ECC or EIC breached its asset coverage ratios even though
the prices of securities were moving around quite heavily, and obviously in the wrong direction for a little while there.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">So the way we've sized it, we were able to make it through obviously
a very, very dark day without running off-sides on any of these tests. Now, if we were to have gone off-sides, the consequence, and this
is under the 40 Act is relatively elegant.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">You can't declare new distributions, but you can pay previously declared
distributions, and you can't take on any additional indebtedness until you kind of right the ship, and get yourself back on sides on the
ratios. So it's a very elegant solution. Obviously, we don't want to find ourselves in either of those scenarios. So that's why we run
both companies with far less leverage than the law would allow us to.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">Now at the same time, putting your hat on the other way, let's say
you were considering buying ECCU. That unto itself, in my opinion, is a very interesting security. That's an unsecured note. It pays interest
rate, a coupon at 7.75% and it matures in June&nbsp;of 2030.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"></P>


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<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">So a little more than five years from now, and I think listeners will
be surprised to know in the 85 years since the 40 Act has been passed, to the best of our knowledge, there have only been two 40 Act companies,
to ever default on their debt or preferred stock.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">Those two companies, the 40 Act companies that were BDCs, one was Allied
and one was ACAS, but even in those cases, the creditors got paid in full plus all of their interest. So to the best of our knowledge,
in the 85 years since the 40 Act has been passed, there have been zero losses realized by lenders to 40 Act companies.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">So when you think about ECCU, for example, 7.75% trading at a tiny
discount to par, right now, you're going to get $25 back in 2030, or sooner you're going to get 7.75% paid quarterly in that case, between
now and then.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">That unto itself is a very interesting investment in our opinion, and
separate from what we do in ECC and EIC. At Eagle Point, we have a separate business that actually invests in debt issued by 40 Act Funds,
because we think it's a very attractive investment unto itself. We never buy our own, unfortunately, although we think they're great securities.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">Obviously, it'd be a conflict if we're buying our own debt into other
funds, but we do buy debt in lots of other 40 Act Vehicles. And frankly, as we've looked at the different ways to break them, we think
it's a very, very robust asset. And certainly, the data, to the best of our knowledge, is fully consistent with our analysis.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>RS</B></FONT>:
Kind of the final point on the dividend [distribution],&nbsp;I wanted to highlight for investors, anybody wondering about the reasoning
behind cutting the supplemental dividend.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">You answered that in the recent&nbsp;earnings call. Curious if you
have any further color on that point and also if you want to talk about yield going forward and how investors could be, should be thinking
about the yield there, the yield there.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>TM</B></FONT>:
So, this goes back probably to 2023,&nbsp;I guess, at this point, if memory serves, we had some spillover income in that our taxable income
ended up being greater than the common distributions we had been paying.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">And over the years, as we've kind of continued to evolve and think
further about how we're managing the companies, going back to 2017, give or take, when we paid a number of like kind of lump sum special
distributions to shareholders. I recall one of them was $0.50.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">The others have had different amounts, but they were kind of just like
a one-time thing because we have to pay out all of our taxable income or substantially all within a calendar year with the ability to
have a little spillover into next year. But you can't sit on it for too long. That's a pro and a con of these 40 Act vehicles.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"></P>


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<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">That said,&nbsp;I remember when we declared that one large special,
the stock went up. We declared it at 4:01 PM, so after the market was closed. Literally the next day, the stock was up roughly the same
amount of the special distribution. And what I saw was that for the shareholder who bought the stock at 3:59 PM, he or she was very lucky.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">All of a sudden, stock was up $0.50. For the shareholder who sold,
all of a sudden that person just sold a stock that went up $0.50 a minute after they sold it, simply because we declared this one-time
special distribution. So we decided after doing that a little while, we decided that wasn't the right way to do it.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">So what we would do is take our spillover income and add it into a
variable supplemental distribution and we concluded the distribution in December&nbsp;of last year as we had covered all of our 2023 spillover
income through 2024. On our most recent earnings call for ECC, we said we don't expect to have additional spillover income into 2025.
So we're going to let that special program end, which was kind of always our intent.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">So the trick is or I was talking earlier about cash, GAAP and tax,
is a CLO equity investor over the life of an investment, cash profit, GAAP profit and tax profit will roughly equal. There might be one
or two things that are not deductible for tax, but that's very small. That said, in my experience, they never equal each other in any
given year.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">So whereas we've had years where we've had large special distributions
we've had to pay to stay on side with the tax rules, in other years, there have been years where we've been able to shelter a lot of distribution
and frankly the taxable income was far less than the distribution in some years, which then meant investors didn't have to pay current
income tax on the cash distributions they received.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">It'd be nice if it was just all the same. It'd be much easier and there's
not a week that goes by that I don't explain this to someone, in totality over time, and they all substantially equal, but they don't
typically equal in any given year. And I have different rules&nbsp;and different masters for each, hence the specials, and then hence
not needing the specials when the need is gone.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>RS</B></FONT>:
And anything to say about the yield?</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>TM</B></FONT>:
Well, we've been very consistent with the distributions on ECC and EIC. We've declared distributions through March&nbsp;at this point
that with the regular ordinary common distribution remaining - the base distribution remaining unchanged, and it's been unchanged now
for several years. We don't offer further guidance beyond that on the distribution.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"></P>


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<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">Obviously, the Board can make the decisions, it thinks best for the
company and shareholders over time. What I will say is we have a very, very long track record at this point of having a very steady hand
with our distribution rate.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>RS</B></FONT>:
Let's get into the portfolio a bit. What would you share with investors? What are you kind of most excited about in terms of your portfolio
and what concerns may you have to answer to shareholders in that regard?</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>TM</B></FONT>:
So we've got a couple of interesting things in our portfolio or a couple of things going on that are,&nbsp;I think, are quite interesting.
One of the benefits of those CLO AAA ETFs that we talked about a few minutes ago is that the spreads on CLO AAAs have come in tremendously.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">And what might have been SOFR plus 175 a year ago or something like
that is now a SOFR plus 125 market. In many cases, for many of the investments that we own, Eagle Point is the majority investor across
our public and private funds in many cases that invest together.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">We have exempt of relief from the SEC to allow that. And what that
then allows us to do as the majority investor is any time after a two year non-call period in the life of a CLO, we can direct either
a refinancing or reset of the debt of the CLO. And what that allows us to do is go out and let's say we have some 170, AAAs that are SOFR
plus 175. We can simply call up those holders and say, well, bad news is well the good news is you've been enjoying that generous coupon.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">The bad news is markets have moved. We're going to refinance you and
issue new CLO AAAs at 125 over. If you'd like to roll and stick with the transaction, we'll give you a first look because you've been
with us. At the same time, if you are, if you don't want to roll, we'll give you your money back plus interest and we'll find a new investor
who's willing to invest at a lower spread.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">So as a firm last year as Eagle Point Credit Management, the adviser
of ECC and EIM, of ECC, we were able to direct corporate actions in dozens of CLOs last year where we were able to go in and rip out costs
on the right side of the capital structure in that we were able to issue CLO debt at tighter and tighter levels throughout the course
of the year.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">So we are very excited to get that done. We think it was very impactful
for our investments and will generate, we believe, increased cash flows for our investors over time versus had we just sat passively and
not stewarded the portfolio.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">It takes a lot of time and effort to do that. We have a multi-person
investment team who actively drive on these. And I think investors would struggle to find a CLO security investor who directed more resets
and refinancings than we did in 2024. We're very, very proactive on this.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"></P>


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<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">Some of the other things we have in our portfolio, and I think we have
a continued path. If you look at our portfolio, which we publish in a PowerPoint presentation, which is on our&nbsp;website, which lists
the AAA spreads on every single CLO where we own the equity of.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">So you can simply sort that by who's the highest and kind of look at
those and say, boy, these guys are going to have some potential to rip out costs on a lot of those CLOs. So I think when we look forward
to 2025, that's one of the things we'll be able to do and we believe that will create some further shareholder value.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">We also have some CLO equivalent type things that are not kind of old
fashioned or not kind of traditional CLOs, but also get us levered exposure to credit. And there's an investment in our portfolio. Senior
secured credit 2022,&nbsp;I believe, is the name. You can see it on our schedule of investments.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">It's actually a joint venture that we have with a BDC run by a third-party,
where that group is an excellent track record in making loans for growth loans or venture loans, they're sometimes called. And these are
companies typically that are generating revenue, but haven't fully reached profitability yet, but are typically backed by blue chip venture
capital firms.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">And in many cases, these loans pay interest between 12% and 16%. Obviously,
any loan can vary, and sometimes even get warrants and other upside potential with the investments.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">What we see there is, we add some leverage, not using CLO leverage,
but using a long-term bank loan facility provided by a bank to that SPV, where we're able to diversify our exposure and get exposure to
different types of companies, get investments that are paying even higher rates of return than the typical loans, syndicated loans that
we might invest in.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">And then with a very attractive leverage, we believe deliver very,
very strong returns to our investors. The reason we don't do it like a regular CLO, frankly, is the rating agencies have not been able
to get their head around rating these loans and of these venture loans.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">One of the things that makes the CLO market work is the underlying
loans, the loans to the companies backed by KKR and Carlyle and the like are in fact rated by the rating agencies, often BB or B, but
they still have a rating.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"></P>


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<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">Essentially, none of these venture loans have a rating, so we can't
do it in a traditional CLO structure. But we've done very well at kind of replicating that, in my opinion, but in a way that generates
very strong and very attractive cash flows for us as an investor.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">So it's a nice diversifier in our portfolio. It's one of the highest
earning assets in our portfolio, and frankly, it's not something you're going to get investing in any other CLO closed end fund. It's
a little bit of the differentiation and novel approaches and creativity that we bring to managing ECC.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>RS</B></FONT>:
And how do you contextualize for investors the management fees? How do you explain that to shareholders?</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>TM</B></FONT>:
So ECC has a what I think is one of the more market friendly, shareholder friendly management fee structures. It's directionally consistent
with the fees we charge in other vehicles as well that are not publicly available.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">The management fee is set up in a way that's it's much more shareholder
friendly than a typical BDC. The typical BDC is going to charge management fees on gross assets. So every dollar of assets in the fund
attracts a management fee.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">What we've said is we're really working for the shareholders at the
end of the day, so our management fee is attributable is only assessed on the common and preferred equity of the firm of ECC, but we don't
charge any management fees on assets purchased with debt.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">So when we just went to issue (ECCU), which is an unsecured note, the
nice part about that is there's no for the shareholders, there's no additional management fee to us for managing that extra $100 million
of assets. So that's very shareholder friendly in our opinion. We do charge an incentive fee as well, similar to BDCs, and that's just
on the income generated in the portfolio.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">But unlike a BDC, we don't have any sort of incentive fee related to
capital gains. So net,&nbsp;I would say, our fee structure is kind of a little more shareholder oriented than the typical large cap BDC
in the market today.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>RS</B></FONT>:
I'm curious as one of the Founders of Eagle Point, what do you think has most surprised you in your tenure there?</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>TM</B></FONT>:
That's a very interesting one. Well, something I never even thought about or heard of prior to founding Eagle Point in 2012 was 40 Act
Baby Bonds and Preferred Stock. I never thought of issuing it. I never thought of investing in it personally. Now we do all of the above
and we have a fund that invests in it.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">And you can see from public filings,&nbsp;I own $25 paper and other
CLO funds where we are - and other funds where we might own so much. We're a Form&nbsp;4 insider, even in other BDCs and credit funds.
So it's something that I wouldn't know if it's the most exciting revelation, but it's something that I never even had heard of before
when founding the firm.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"></P>


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<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">And when we started going from just managing in typical LP format to
going to go to the public markets back in 2014 when we first took ECC public I believe we issued our first preferred stock off of ECC
in 2015 and it took me a little while to get comfortable with it. But I remember looking at it and ultimately thinking it was a great
tool for the company and unto itself a great investment.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">So that was something I learned I never even heard of before. And now
I'm both a buyer and an issuer of it. One thing. The other thing which I knew, but it's great to live it, is the importance of people
in the investment management business.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">Eagle Point Credit Management, who's the adviser to ECC. We have we're
just approaching a 100 people on our staff. We had six new employees start on Monday and we continue to grow at a measured pace. And we
grow our team typically in advance of raising new assets. And the people part of the business is so, so important.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">And when we look at our senior investment team, we've been working
together since substantially the inception of the firm. And we have,&nbsp;I think, 23 employee partners at the firm, myself included.
We've never had a partner leave our firm for any reason. Zero.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">Hopefully that means we're doing something right, but we make it really
hard to get to work here, to get hired, or certainly very hard to get promoted to partner. At the same time, once we get those people
in, they seem to do a very good job and have a very good habit of sticking around.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">And it's kind of getting that people side right, getting the right
investment mindset, that creativity, and I'll call it intellectual curiosity that our team shares never ceases to amaze me. And putting
all that together,&nbsp;I think, is what's gone into generating the strong returns that we've generated for ECC and all the other vehicles
that we manage.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>RS</B></FONT>:
That seems like staggering data for a partner not to have left. That feels like an anomaly to me as somebody who doesn't know. Is that
an anomaly in the market?</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>TM</B></FONT>:
I mean it's atypical for sure. Sometimes when like pension consultants come in and do due diligence on us, when we say that, they're like,
really?</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>RS</B></FONT>:
You might want to make your hiring practices proprietary maybe.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>TM</B></FONT>:
It could very well be. Once in a while,&nbsp;I describe us as an HR firm that does investing on the side. But really is you get the people
right, get some good investment ideas.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"></P>


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<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">And every investment in the ground here, the partner who is involved
in getting it in the ground is still here. And there's no scenario, oh, that was the prior guy or the prior lady bought that. It's no.
Everything we've put in, every person who bought something, whether their discretion or through the committee process, depending on the
size and, complexity of the investment, everyone's still here, and they feel a sense of ownership in the investments they make.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">And they're, in many cases, owners of ECC. And one of the things I
like is when, we still obviously approve whenever any employee buys something, in one of our funds. But you see some of the junior people
buying a 100 shares, 200 shares. That's great. I love - come through and they're always approved.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>RS</B></FONT>:
In a cold leaning world, that's some nice warm data. That feels good to hear. Speaking of people and connections and growth, we had&nbsp;the
CEO&nbsp;of Trinity Capital (TRIN), Kyle Brown, on a few months ago. As CEO of Eagle Point, you guys have a recent joint venture together.
Can you share with investors why you did that? What it means for shareholders? What it means for the marketplace?</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>TM</B></FONT>:
This was that joint venture that I had mentioned, the senior secured - 2022 senior credit company. It's in our schedule of investments
in ECC, and what it is so it's something where we both invest together where Kyle, who's a super guy, his business has been around for
probably 17 years, give or take, at this point.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">And we think of them as one of the preeminent venture lenders in the
marketplace. And it's a very different skill set than in underwriting the next KKR LBO. They do very interesting transformative companies,
and they lend money at, we think are attractive rates.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">Once in a while, things go wrong. Obviously, they try and minimize
that. And at the same time, some things go very well, and they have equity upside through warrants and convertible securities and things
like that, that let them participate in the ups.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">So as we got to know them over actually through our practice of a separate
business line away from ECC that we have of investing in $25 product issued by other funds. We got to know them back before COVID. And
we were in the maybe an anchor, maybe even a sole investor in one of the securities they issued. And as we got to know them and really
look in the, kind of under the hood,&nbsp;I think we were very impressed with the things they were doing.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">At the same time,&nbsp;I think they would say we brought some maybe
some structural creativity and came together with a joint venture that is partially owned by TRIN, partially owned by ECC, and then partially
owned by other clients at Eagle Point here, that's able to get kind of take that their very good venture lending cooking and then put
it into a kind of not exactly a CLO, but a CLO similar-esque structure that gets investors levered exposure to a very attractive lending
program. So it's been a great relationship.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"></P>


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<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">Our teams are actually they're out in Phoenix. Part&nbsp;of our team
was out there, meeting on some things, just to refresh on their platform earlier this week. I missed the trip. I would have loved to have
gone to Phoenix in January, but someone had to stay in the office,&nbsp;I guess.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">I'm sitting here in Greenwich, Connecticut where I can see the ice
on the water even a little bit outside my window. It is a great group and that kind of creativity of putting two smart groups together,
working constructively. I think we've created some very attractive investments for our shareholders and I believe they've done the same
for theirs.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>RS</B></FONT>:
I really appreciate this conversation, Tom. I think shareholders or interested investors are going to gain a lot from hearing what you
have to say. Anything that you feel like we left out of the conversation that you want to share with listeners?</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>TM</B></FONT>:
We're in a growth world here. Things are, it's going to be a little volatility based on commentary in the market. But we're set up exactly
the way we're supposed to be in markets like this. We're in a pretty good environment.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">Lots of people talking about soft landing, hard landing. Seems like
we kind of had&nbsp;no landing, and our outlook continues to remain quite robust for corporate credit. And variably, there'll be twists
and turns that come our way in as credit investors.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">But in these strong markets where we're able to get in and rip out
costs on the right side of our balance sheet we're quite optimistic for the prospects for our investment strategies in 2025 and beyond.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">We think the United States is set up very well and nearly all our investments
are here in the United States. The economy doing far better than I think many people predicted. Corporate defaults remain quite low and,
touch wood, spreads continue to tighten, which we're able to capitalize and lock in for long periods of time in our investments.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">So we're pretty, pretty bullish on where we sit in the world. There's
going to be ups and downs for sure, but net, we think the answer is up into the right, which is always the right direction.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>RS</B></FONT>:
And where can investors find out more about Eagle Point or get in touch with you or get in touch with Eagle Point?</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><FONT STYLE="font-family: Times New Roman, Times, Serif; font-size: 10pt"><B>TM</B></FONT>:
The easiest way is to visit&nbsp;Eagle Point. That has a lot of information about ECC. It has all our public filings. It has a full investor
presentation that we prepare every single quarter that lays out lots and lots of details about our portfolio. And there's ways right in
there to get in touch through our investor relations team.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"></P>


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<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">If it's questions for me or any of our executives or about investments
in our portfolio, we're always very happy to get investors whatever information we can reasonably provide and get on the phone and speak
with folks, if we'd like to. We also have some of&nbsp;your colleagues&nbsp;who are writers instead of speakers come by and see us once
in a while, and always happy to connect with them as well and should they have any questions either.</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0">&nbsp;</P>


<P STYLE="font: 10pt Times New Roman, Times, Serif; margin: 0pt 0"><I>The issuer has filed a registration statement (including a prospectus)
with the SEC for the offering to which this communication relates. Before you invest, you should read the prospectus in that registration
statement and other documents the issuer has filed with the SEC for more complete information about the issuer and this offering. You
may get these documents for free by visiting EDGAR on the SEC website at www.sec.gov. Alternatively, you can receive the prospectus if
you request it by calling toll-free at (844) 810-6501.</I></P>


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